XII. Interview with… Andile Mbete, Music Aficionado

Photo: Dane Maharaj

With a near-encyclopedic knowledge of blues and all its descendants, Andile "Famous Face" Mbete is the consummate music nerd. It's little wonder then he would end up working as an artist manager for Sony. After several years though, having seen firsthand how the sausage is made, Mbete hung up his label hat. Nowadays, this sonic spelunker maintains the purity of his passion through lectures delivered over drinks to his unwitting friends/dates, compiling a fine array of Spotify playlists named for another passion of his: deli sandwiches; and on the most rare of occasions, not so-soberly selecting vinyls from behind a set of decks. In his conversation with The Empty Set below, Mbete breaks down his pandemic polyphonics, speculates about the future of the music industry, and offers perspicuous insights into the range and refinement of his tastes.

Knowing you personally, but also how you've been vociferously gazetted far and wide by comrades and admiring adversaries alike for your musical acumen, experience, passion and insuperable taste, let me ask you this: in what ways has Covid changed music, do you feel?

Well, let's start with the obvious changes beginning with the deep disruption of the live music industry. It's been a real tragedy to see how negatively the pandemic affected live music which goes well beyond musicians; booking agents, festival hands, lighting engineers you name it, the entire live music infrastructure just stopped and it's hard to imagine how it'll look in the future. Secondly, there's been the unsurprising growth in streaming and subscriptions to streaming platforms, a positive in some respects but this growth has led to another important change which can be seen as a result of the two previously mentioned factors; the growing demand by artists for improved royalties from the streaming services. This is important for artists and consumers I believe since streaming has become the major source of access to music for many but also an extremely exploitative one as well. This disruption has laid bare the importance of the music for people and the moral flaws of the industry.

Strange to think that for going on the past year and a half we have all, in some way, been Roberro de la Grivas castaways coping with Covid on cuts of culture we collectively cling to like driftwood on dérive in the digital surf. It got me thinking about how many 'desert island playlists' got ran through. What were your most played records in isolation and why?

Man, this is a tricky one; I don't think I have consumed music at a more ferocious rate than did in isolation but if think about it the 3 records that got consistent rotation would probably be King Krule's "Man Alive!",  Sault's "Untitled (Black Is) and Interpol's cult classic record "Antics". I think these three records satisfy my general love for melancholy, political consciousness and nostalgic romance in songs (and maybe in life).

When Prince died, I remember hearing a lot of chatter about the loss of the so-called 'album experience'; that is, the latent critique and decrying of the trend in songs being shorter, being put out piece-meal, and, in their graduated form, being, in a way, generally 'anti-experience'. What's your take on this? 

The purity of the album experience is a curious and ironic one for me. People tend to forget that historically most people were listening to singles on radio or on 45's and those were generally under 3 minutes. The album experience, for me, is very much married to the rise of the musician as an artist that perhaps rock and jazz introduced in the 60 till maybe 2000s. I guess the pendulum has swung back to the idea of the hit song. Both "states" have their merits, I love how easy relatively unknown artists can break the mould with a big (read viral)  or interesting song but at the same time I yearn to see real career artists like Prince who constantly improve and contribute meaningfully to the art over the span of many years.

I also think the medium is important to consider here. Physical formats like the LP and CD allowed for genuine album experiences the music was created, sequenced and recorded in a manner that kind of forced you to listen to it from beginning to end. Streaming and Piracy ala Napster before in the 2000s really made it really easy to share songs, create your own list of songs etc. making the album listening experience a labour of love rather than the standard way to enjoy music. Overall I think we live in an era where you do have greater freedom on how you want to experience music. Artists will also still make albums and you can either enjoy the hit single or the entire body of work, it's up to the listener.

In your opinion, what do you think make a good pop song?

Good pop songs in my experience were the ones that had the best hook, catchiest melodies and in all honesty, came out at the right time. People never talk about much but a lot of hits just came out at the right time. I spent three years of my life trying to manufacture a hit and I can promise you this, there's no formula, whatsoever, there's songs with potential and songs with none. That's it.

You and I seem to have a penchant for what I've heard called 'Doom Rap', the sword tipped by spitters including Earl Sweatshirt, Navy Blue, MIKE, and Mavi, among others. Texture, hissing, complex schemes, internals upon internals which they build and navigate like black Stanges only to often be dismissed as black strangeness, the skill not outweighing the difficulty of its consumption. Setting aside my pique at these sorts of reductions, let me ask you: what makes a bad hip hop track?

Bad production is my worst thing ever in a hip hop track. Technically good rappers have drowned in the river of bad beats - I am looking at you Nas. Another thing would be the delivery or lack of actual distinctiveness. Say what you want about Lil Uzi Vert, 21 Savage, Young Thug or Lil Yachty as rappers but all of them are so distinctive in style, in some respects that I find it hard to fault them even if it doesn't fall in the traditional framework of hip hop. Technical stuff aside, lack of originality is the worst and the most common occurrence in Hip Hop. There are a lot of derivative songs out there and they are so easy to forget. You can take inspiration but you have to bring something to the table too.

Photo: Dane Maharaj

I imagine this will shift like sands in an hourglass and the days of our lives they track, but who/what are your three favorite albums/producers/and performers right now and why?

1. Madlib as always. The man has the most consistent and distinctive output of work. I feel like the world is only recognising his talents now on a more commercial level but he's honestly one of the greatest craftsman Hip Hop has ever produced.

2. Channel Tres is really fun and his new mixtape slaps! To me, he kinda feels like this generation's Moodyman, this underground dance savant kinda thing. Real good for the summer.

3. Yves Tumor, maybe, definitely my favourite artist at the moment. His new album and music, in general, is all kinds of melodramatic and experimental that I can't help but constantly revisit his work.

Lupe said once "they said it was comin' back around, man. Back to the lyrics, man. Back to people like me" ('Failure', 2005). What are your three favorite lyrics of all time (any genre)?

- Raekwon the Chef's entire verse on C.R.E.A.M. (My favourite song about life)

- Posdnous' first version on Eye Know (My favourite song about Love)

- All of the Lyrics C'mere from Interpol (My favourite song about breakups)

An area less considered and contested in general conversation in my experience, but with your relationship to the craft, I have to ask: three most important songwriters, in your view?

Jeez this is hard.....

- Scott Walker (a new one for me, but he's incredible)

- Prince (G.O.A.T)

- Sam Cooke

- Gil Scott Heron w/ Brian Jackson (I know I was asked for 3 but the work that these two did together is too timeless not to mention).

You know, I'll never forget getting a weekend pass from boarding school, walking over to your house, sheepishly saying hello to your Ma and sis, sitting in your room staring at those Bruce Lee and Wu-Tang posters, writing pseudo-Defenders of the Underground sad nerd raps for hours, and watching Shaw Brothers joints on e-TV. Those days saved my life. And with Steve bringing the thunder, in my mind, we were a bad to decent rap group. But imagining and speculating about the possible bands and groups we could make with our friends is always the real side of the virtual, the unreal side being what ifs about being a part of a band or group you love. Which three bands, from any epoch, would you be magic'd into?

- Pylon (Highly underrated highly influential New Wave band from the 80's really influential on bands like R.E.M. - it's okay to like R.E.M if you're black right?)

- ESG (Best band of the '80s. All black all-female post-punk band? C'mon!)

- N.W.A. (Just so I could rap on Straight outta Compton)

Your experience in the music industry is international and robust. I'm therefore curious: in what major ways has the S.A music scene changed since 2010?

The first would be the rapid decline of the physical music market, this rapid fall has completely changed how the artist earns. Streaming has been slow to pick in the country for a number of factors so there's an even greatest reliance on live performances, Radio and other avenues. 

Another shift is the gradual growth in commercial popularity of localised music this isn't just local acts but sounds that birthed from here too - think Durban House, Gqom and Amapiano. This has been a really exciting development to see.

I hate myself for saying this but the expansion of Festival culture as the standard live music experience has been significant too. To be clear outdoor music experiences have been a staple of the black music experience for generations (I was almost involved in a stampede at a Brenda Fassie Show at the age of 3) but traditionally rock and dance festivals have introduced other genres and have become way more accessible which I think is really great to see. I am in no way going to a festival again cause I am in my 30's and like comfort.

Best three live music experienced and why?

- Young Fathers- watched them in a small rundown venue and they were the most captivating act I had ever seen

- The Internet were like watching a family just jam, it felt so warm and intimate even though we were at a major outdoor event

- MGMT I am a big fan of the band and it was great hearing them play in a live setting, super tight and technically brilliant. It was annoying to be around people who only know their 2 big hits but such is life.

Photo: Jessica Wright

I think despite the horror stories, including my own personal ones, widely disseminated about the various tributaries of the entertainment industrial complex, but specifically 'the music game', in documentaries, public litigation, beefs, and messy fallings offs, the desire to break into that industry, often with a faith in the freedom of independence as a buffer, still proliferates. What are three misconceptions about working for a major label? 

- There is no glamour in it really. It's a lot of hard admin work and co-ordination offset with some partying and studio session time. You really have to love music to be fully committed. 

- That you will always be churning out hits and that you'll always be signing hit artists.

- That artists are divas, there's a lot of anxiety in releasing your intellectual property to someone else and relying on them to make a career for you. It's a real precarious set up for artists and generally quite exploitative.

I read recently that in Spain, authorities successfully tested an in-Covid-res concert. There were reportedly thousands of attendees. There were reportedly zero new infections resulting. Regardless of how we try finesse the virus, and how well or poorly we do at it, what three trends do you foresee in music post-Covid?

- The trends I hope to see is a shifting streaming contract where artists are paid better as these platforms grow. 

- I genuinely see a complete embrace of live music culture that will be augmented by some sort of digital experience especially. I think people are desperate for experiences again and have seen how digital platforms can at least help facilitate those.

- We're seeing it now but I think we'll see a complete change in how music is marketed off traditional platforms like playlists and radio. Netflix and Tik Tok have already shown the potential of popularising a song outside well before it becomes a hit on the radio. I don't foresee this trend ending anytime soon.